Johnny The Fox
Release Date: 2011
Number of Discs: 2
See also ORIGINAL issue 1976
1,000 copy limited vinyl re-issue
4. Don't Believe A Word
5. Fools Gold
6. Johnny The Fox Meets Jimmy The Weed
7. Old Flame
9. Sweet Marie
10. Boogie-Woogie Dance
1. Don't Believe A Word (Re-Mixed Version)
2. Johnny The Fox Meets Jimmy The Weed (Re-Mixed Version)
3. Borderline (Re-Mixed Version)
4. Don't Believe A Word (BBC Sessions 11/10/1976)
5. Johnny The Fox Meets Jimmy The Weed (BBC Sessions 11/10/1976)
6. Fools Gold (BBC Sessions 11/10/1976)
7. Johnny (BBC Sessions 11/10/1976)
8. Fools Gold (Instrumental Run Through)
9. Johnny The Fox Meets Jimmy The Weed (Instrumental Run Through/Extended)
10. Rocky (Instrumental Run Through)
11. Massacre (Instrumental Take With Lynott Directions To Band)
12. Scott's Tune (Unreleased Scott Gorham Composition)
*** Special Note ***
Have you ever wondered who the characters JOHNNY or JIMMY were inspired by? Well, here are excerpts from a couple of recent email messages that I've received, with possible explanations:
This note below quotes some well-known people from the Thin Lizzy story, but since I am receiving the information second hand I have omitted their names.
June 21st, 2013
Like you, I am a very devoted long-time Thin Lizzy fan. Clearly, they were the best band ever, and I am surprised that more people don't recognize that fact.
I was wondering if you were aware of something that just very recently came to my attention. There is a blues guitarist named Rocky Athas, whom I have never heard of before, who has apparently been giving interviews for years now claiming that he is the inspiration behind the song "Rocky" from the "Johnny The Fox" album. He gets the title of the song wrong, continually referring to it as "Cocky Rocky", and has been telling a story about Thin Lizzy coming to see him play in 1976 at club called Mother Blues in Dallas. I find the whole story doubtful, since this guy also claims that members of Queen were there, too. That implies to me that the nightclub visit occurred during the Queen/Thin Lizzy North American tour, but that tour wasn't until 1977, and was several months after "Johnny The Fox" came out. This Rocky Athas guy now plays guitar for John Mayall's band (yes, Mayall is still around, believe it or not). He's also recorded with Black Oak Arkansas, and he's put out CDs with his own band. So, he's somewhat well-known, apparently, in the Dallas, Texas area and perhaps beyond since he tours with his bands.
Every Thin Lizzy fan knows that "Rocky" in the song is Brian Robertson. There's no doubt about it. The fact that this guy is going around attempting to change history pisses me off, frankly. He's sort of hijacking pther people's lives to glorify himself. Personally, though, I was going to forget about it, and ignore the situation, but I started to see just how much this lie has been spread around by this guy. It's all over the internet. If you do a Google search for "Rocky Athas Thin Lizzy" you'll see what I mean. So, I took the liberty recently of contacting several people who are closely associated with Lizzy to get their thoughts about this guy. A couple of their reactions puzzled me.
First, I contacted (famous Thin Lizzy-interested person). He told me he "never even heard of this guy!" The exclamation point is his. He further said that, of course, Robbo is "Rocky" since Phil Lynott personally told him so when he was present in the studio during the "Johnny The Fox" sessions. He told me Robbo was being Robbo during the sessions, and that the song is an obvious tribute to Robbo's well-known cocky, brash, rock and roll star attitude. He seemed at least a bit incredulous about this Rocky Athas guy lying all over the place about his being "Rocky".
I then contacted (famous Thin Lizzy-interested person). He responded with a short email and told the "Mother Blues" story again, and said (famous Thin Lizzy-interested person) is correct, and that, obviously, "Rocky" is Robbo. He said the song has absolutely nothing to do with Rocky Athas at all.
Lastly, before I emailed you, I emailed (famous Thin Lizzy-interested person). I felt fairly comfortable contacting him about this since he was so close to Lizzy and especially to Phil Lynott. I was totally surprised that he really didn't care at all about this guy's lying about the song. I did mention in my email that I realized that this situation isn't terribly important, really, but with the internet these days, lies like this get repeated enough and they become the new truth. He told me that he always thought "Rocky" was Robbo, and he basically said "who cares". He said there's "no point in bursting this guy's bubble", referring to Athas, and it's probably his only "claim to fame", so basically just let him keep spreading this story. He said that Robbo would probably laugh about it if he knew (which I find hard to believe). I was sort of amazed at the attitude.
By the way, I have contacted Robbo, and I'm still waiting to hear back from him. If he says he doesn't care, I'll let it go.
At any rate, clearly, the song has nothing at all to do with a roadhouse semi-unknown blues guitarist. However, a lot of people already believe his story. It's even on his bio page on John Mayall's website. There are comments telling this story on the Youtube page for the song. It's on Rocky Athas' Facebook page. It's everywhere. As a Lizzy fan, I don't want their legacy hijacked by a someone simply for his own glorification and self-interest. Phil wrote that song for his friend and bandmate, Brian Robertson.
I apologize for the very long email, but I wanted to explain things fully. I don't want to feel as if I am overreacting to this guy's lies, and I'm amazed that a true Lizzy fan wouldn't care about this. This is how history gets changed. It starts with the little things. If this were 30 years ago, maybe I wouldn't care at all, but, as I said, with the internet people can now talk trash and have an instant audience of millions of other people.
November 30th 2011
JIMMY THE WEED
Inside the Quality Street Gang
My Life in the Manchester Underworld by Jimmy Donnelly
JIMMY DONNELLY IS an underworld legend. Known to all as Jimmy the Weed, he has mixed with the most notorious gangsters in Britain and the Costa del Crime in a criminal career spanning five decades. He has been arrested on suspicion of serious crimes including murder, drug supply, violence and fraud, has faced numerous court trials – and walked free from them all.
Most infamously, Jimmy was a key figure in the Quality Street Gang, a mysterious group of ex-fighters, car dealers, scrap merchants and businessmen. They socialised with the city's elite, from footballers to rock stars and inspired the hit song, 'The Boys Are Back In Town.' They were also targeted by Greater Manchester Police who suspected them of involvement in major crime. In the mid-eighties they became embroiled in the sensational Stalker Affair, which led to a national political scandal and ultimately the resignation of the city's deputy chief constable.
In this explosive autobiography, Jimmy tells how he rose from humble beginnings to own pubs, clubs, car pitches and massage parlours, how he became the biggest illicit ticket agent in the North, and his great friendship with numerous figures from the worlds of crime, showbiz and sport, including the formidable ex-boxer Jim Swords, the man the QSG grouped around.
He has seen and done it all: and tells it in unvarnished detail.
About the author:
JIMMY DONNELLY was born in Manchester in 1940 and worked as a youth on Smithfield Market, where he made many of the friends later dubbed the Quality Street Gang. He went on to own numerous pubs, clubs and businesses and to be immortalised in Thin Lizzy's 1976 rock anthem, 'Johnny the Fox Meets Jimmy the Weed'. Now retired from crime, he lives quietly in the Ancoats area of the city.
For more information visit Milo Books
Monday, March 15, 2004 7:30 PM
the email from Anthony sounds most plausible and i'd like to back it up with a quote from the sleeve of the 'johnny the fox' remastered uk cd written by stuart bailie of the 'new musical express' ...
"The resourceful character of Johnny The Fox is reckoned to be Phil himself, but the rival figure on the album has a more interesting history. Jimmy the Weed is a thinly disguised reference to Manchester hood called Jimmy the Weazel. He was associated with the Quality Street Gang, a posse who were fearfully regarded at the time.
'They were nice guys,' a friend of Phil's remembers, 'But they didn't do nice things.' Jimmy the Weazel was last spotted 'enjoying' himself in the Costa Del Sol."
hope that can help clear a few things up.
Sunday, February 08, 2004 3:59 PM
At the moment I am reading a book about the Manchester (England) gangs. It is a book about two certain districts: Cheetham Hill on the North side of the city and Moss Side on the South side of the city. I picked the book up due to the fact that I support Manchester City Football Club (not to be confused with the poor relations man united, small letters intended). City until recently played all the home matches in Moss Side and I thought it would be an interesting read.
The book was published in 2003 and has some interesting info. It speaks about the Whalley Range Hotel run by Phillip's mother and states that the track Johnny the Fox meets Jimmy the Weed was named after Jimmy "the weed" Donnelly who was a member of the infamous Quality Street Gang and a regular visitor to the hotel !!
Interesting possible explanation, although I believe the actual name of the Hotel was the Clifton Grange Hotel, in Manchester.
Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:46:05 -0700 (PDT)
Over the years, it has been alleged to me that in the song Johnny the Fox meets Jimmy the Weed, that KSAN dj Richard Gossett was Johnny the Fox and being one of the Hoodoo Rhythm Devils most well known fans that I (David M. Schantz) was Jimmy the Weed.
Thanks for your time.
David M. Schantz, a.k.a. "Slim Chance"
Can anyone shed any light on this?
If you can I'd love to hear from you. Thanks.
While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of this information, it is provided "as is" for your information only.
This is the oldest THIN LIZZY fan site on the internet - this site has been on line for + years since May 1995.